THE BOOK OF REVELATION, CHAPTER 1 - 6 and 12

"With JOHN, the apostle"


QUESTION AND ANSWER

(Someone of the audience: May I ask? Now that we are preparing ourselves toward the Purification day, as the community of charity services of the Blessed Mother, what things should we prepare?)

Oh... preparation is your heart. From the beginning I told you ‘your heart’. Your heart belongs to God. Your heart is one with your Soul. Your heart is not this one here. What is it called? (Liver). Yes, liver, but not that. Your spiritual heart, the heart is with your soul. Your soul lives; it lies within your body’s skeleton. When God takes the soul, your body becomes powerless; it will become sands, has no use. What useful is your soul which will be saved; this soul lives. Your heart lies within soul. You could pray with soul, meet with God. Those pray with soul will meet God, but those pray with thoughts will meet Satan. Do you believe it? (audience: We do)

Later, you will desperate, you will get angry to God for your prayers are not granted. This is why many God’s children run away from reality, if they cannot handle, they will be mad. This is what I want to tell you. So, I am begging you, in this community together with Mother Mary, to work well. Do what you can do especially in your family, this is important. No more anger and irritation at home, but instead it should have love and affection so you could praise God. When one gets annoyed, gets angry, the rest will get affected, for Satan always uses the weaknesses of surrounding people. At the end, there is no peace. The unfinished problem will make him madder, further distance from God. This is what I want to tell you.

(Someone of the audience: Apostle, please explain to us about the purification itself that we discussed just now. I just want to know more about how the purification does not come from the person within but from the outsider.)

Very well, my dear brother/sisters, peace and joy greetings for those united in God this afternoon with Agnes, you two also the priests and God’s children. You may hear anything today; I give you much time. We will talk about anything you do not understand, you may talk.
“ Purification”. Purification does not come from the person within but from his/her surroundings. Okay, like this I don’t like Ola, I don’t like your attitude and behavior. You cannot be like that. I must like her for who she is; this is purification. I should accept any behavior and attitude of my fellows, brothers/sisters, and in my family for what they are. There are always settlements. Don’t accept but no settlements, it will be sad later. I am purified and so he is, don’t you agree? Do you understand? I am being purified, and so does he. I don’t like A or B, but I am purified, so I must accept that person and must be closed with him, to love and care, and I will talk in faith with A or B. He is purified and so am I; he will not be naughty again, I will accept him the way he is, and I will be patient.

Therefore, purification does not just come from within us, but also from your surrounding. There must be many people rebel for his friends do not like it. If you are against it, you will not be part of purification. For any behavior and attitude you receive from your surroundings, especially from your family; you must know: I must be patience with the situation and what must I do. Be wise and humble; as these appear to accept that person for what he is and solve the problem. It’s like that. This is purification, whether you like it or not. Do you understand? Like or dislike, there is no man alive will say I like you. No way! What did he say? I like you! No, there has got to be something in someone, you like and don’t like. This is the purification. This will help you to be purified at this moment. So, we know this is my weakness; I am easy to get angry, yes, because of him I get angry. The most important thing, you pray for that person with your genuine heart, God must change that person to be better. Prayer, it all comes back to prayer. We must pray a lot. Praying is united in soul, in mercy, and in love through God’s power; we meet God through that prayer.

We also prayed a lot. Everything we brought into our prayers, had problems, we brought into our prayers, also when we were happy, we prayed in rejoice. You may sing in rejoice, thank God. You may dance, nothing is wrong with it as the heaven is also rejoicing. Especially when feeling happy, when we see great things from the earth, we are rejoicing, praising God. You may also, it’s not wrong. Who said wrong to dance in praising God? Did anybody say wrong? (Answer audience: no one)

There are! These people do not understand; God likes His children rejoicing and praising Him, with their honest hearts poured out for God, God likes it! David danced praising God and commended His life to God. I once was born naked from my mother’s womb, and also now, what I mean is; if you want to come to God, don’t come with your flash.

For you priests, you come to God for you are a priest; you talk to Him and tell Him what you wish as a priest. Be humble! “It’s me Lord, I come to you with all my weaknesses, with all my attitudes and behaviors, I come to you. I am praying for my people you gave me, help me so I could protect them all in my services, and not to be served.” Let me ask you, is this correct? (Answer audience: correct)

For we were with God, we served people. He took us to a lot of places. My feet hurt, the clothes were smelly; and its color turned to what color is that? Washing our clothes; while resting we washed our clothes, waited by sleeping…, when they got dry, we wore them again. But you priests, these days, I see you are happy; many priests are happy, from one place to another. I realize it is time to serve that way, but I remind you “serve, not to be served!” That is the completeness of being a priest since your job is to serve. Okay, you must believe it? Must be like that.

Yes, we have talked to John the Apostle for a long time just now about the Truth, about God’s plan to save His children, how we become His good children and do our jobs well and serve well. That needs a struggle. God shall bless His children who struggle for good things in their live journey. Thus, we received many deep understandings from John the Apostle how we all were saved and what we need to do after in this journey. That was what I heard when John the Apostle explained to us just now.

(Someone of the audience asked: I’d like to ask about chapter 4, about the twenty-four elders and about four beasts.)
4:4 And surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads.
I am not quite clear on the term elders, and why four beasts?)

John the Apostle usually uses the term elders for those people whom are wise and worthwhile; they are not just regular old men! The people have already finished their tasks in their live journey and God accepted them.(Audience: How about the number 24? What does it mean?)

This is only an expression; it is possible the number of holly people is countless. 24 is only a symbol, a phrase to give us some understanding. There are many holy people in heaven, how is it counted? But with this phrase, we understand that they are gathered and we could reflect it. There must have been more than 24 holly people in heaven. Once again, this is only an expression; the exact number is unlimited there.

What is another one? Those four beasts are also expression; might just take the good characters of those beasts. For instance, a cow, how is its character? It gives most of what he has got. Almost all of its body is given to men: milk, flash, even its eyes. They all are useful. This is only for example; those beasts have something good before God to be used for describing people He chose. John the Apostle has unique character; others have it too. Do you understand?

(Someone of the audience: how about the red horse, what does it mean?)

It is war and the brave one!
Why was John the Apostle described as an eagle? He was too deep in teaching about God. He was the only one mastered about God; the rest was not. So he was described like that so we know. Thus, they have characteristics. Let us see Mathew, Marc, Luke, and compare with John, well it is not comparable.
What parts of Bible that priests have the most difficulty in explaining to their people? It is John, off course. It is quite hard. For us it is also hard, not only to the priests. It is hard for us since this is the deepening of faith. Whoever believes Jesus, will be tested, come on, come on as if we are pulled to know Jesus more. Well, it is like that! That is the gospel of John, it is different; that was why given the eagle description. John the Apostle said those images were given for different character each has in conveying God’s Truth. Ola might have a way, I have a different one, and each of us has our own way in conveying the Truth about God. The way varies, but the message is the same. Each has his own character like Mathew, Luke, and Marc; they are different in delivering but they all have one destination, which is God, God’s presence to save men’s lives. That is it; I think John the Apostle may add something to it? He said it is enough and it is deep enough the understanding given just now.

(Someone of the audience: Just now, John the Apostle also mentioned that after the purification of the world, we will live in one era, which we do not know how long that is? Therefore, we will face until the world’s purification, but after that we do not know will we live to face many events until end?)

If I am not mistaken, I heard John the Apostle said you would only receive what has been your part in this prophecy, what you have already received about the Promise. Therefore, we have tasks and others prior to the world’s purification; we do not know how long that one era is and how long we will live? But after that one era, there will be another era. We will not live in that era, no need to discuss about that. What we are talking now is God’s promise, the purification, and we do the tasks. We do not know how long we will live during that one era itself. We might not go through the end of the world in the future era. Why do you need to know that matter? It’s no use, it is way too far, and you will not understand more! Those of you understood about this, please comprehend it deep especially for conveying the Truth in this community.

(Someone of the audience: Ma’am, I’ve got a question, and hopefully John the Apostle is still around to help in answering it. We now in Lent time; in the Liturgy, the Church has been always preached about celebrating or honoring three things. Celebrating Jesus was born, preparing our hearts to receive Jesus, and waiting for His coming at end of days. The second coming of Jesus is end of days, never mentioned about the purification day. Now through this community, we are conveying the world’s purification message. Then, we have chosen this recollection time during Lent since the timing is so perfect for waiting for the second coming of God. But now we are talking about the purification of the world where God would not come yet, only His power descends, as the Son of Man’s time to judge is not here just yet. That is later at the end of the world. Therefore, it is hard to come in between those understandings during conveying. This has often become a problem to be openly where Church has never preached or taught about the between era?)

Rev. Isak Doera: The Church has never deepened the Book of Revelation; as Mother Mary always says John’s Prophecy. Through John’s prophecy, we understand more. Thus, The Church does not understand it; the hierarchy does not pay much attention.

That is why; the difficulties Churches are facing, the difficulties priests are facing to guide people whom are labile in faith in their lives; many are hopeless, many troubles they are facing because they don’t have a strong faith guiding them.

Truthfully, the purification must happen individually within us every day, not only waiting for God’s promise for our purification. No! Purification is a continuous progress, we continuously wait for Jesus’ coming not only at Christmas, but it must be everyday, and we open our heart to expect Jesus in our life. This is more real than the understanding comprehended literally. Thus, many people only come to church during Christmas or Easter. It’s not like that. No! Waiting for Jesus’ birth is actually not a moment of remembrance; we should renew our life, rebirth ourselves everyday to be a new person, which means repent, reflect on our live journey, what I have done. That is purification! That is the rebirth every day, not only on Christmas. This is what God’s children as the Church still do not understand. It is adequate just to come to church during Christmas and Easter, after that no need. And they never get involved in any spiritual activities or other things in the community. Is this adequate? It is not; this is the priests’ duty to guide. Therefore in Christmas and Easter Liturgy later, it must be more stressed on the real meaning of Christmas and Easter in our daily life. This is very important. So, it’s not big letter saying EASTER AND CHRISTMAS, but it is more important the spiritual life of Christmas and Easter in an individual daily life, this is what John the Apostle said.

This is hard for those do not reflect it deep; why is it so hard? To follow God must be like this, like that. No! God does not demand much from us, God only demands to take good care of ourselves. Be faithful in your life; that is all. For the faithfulness at the beginning was given to Abraham. Be faithful, God’s demand continues to all of us. We cannot …… if one is not faithful, what is his sin? That is God’s matter; do not always want to know what God does in someone’s life. Many say: “Agnes, that priest is no longer a priest, how is that?” Well, that’s his faithful. That is his matter with God. It’s not our right, but we could pray for all that. So, if men want to see how far God judges the unfaithful ones, that is wrong!

Well, this is what John the Apostle needed to tell this afternoon. So, there is purification and is real. If not, what will men become? Please, what will men become if God does not purify? What will men become? Will be all gone; when God through His power wants to save men, where are the men? All are gone with the world? God’s plan is not like that. God must love and have faith in His children. He must do His plan, He would prepare His children well; therefore He assigned Mother Mary to us. Through His power, Mother Mary is presence on earth among us. What kind of sign is it? Love sign, it is God’s love sign, by His ways He wants to save men from this world.

(Someone of the audience: During the sun becomes darkened, at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, etc. For what I understand ‘the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky’ is as a Cross or it could be another sign of the Son of Man comes and steps on clouds. Thus, I got the understanding by combining what according to Mathew and what we had just now that the second coming of Jesus may be prior to the three days of darkness, not after that. This is an opinion, ma’am, thank you)

What Mathew said the sign in the sky, the Son of Man stands on clouds, couldn’t be accepted literally! That means His power comes; this is the Purification. It is not the end of time, but the beginning of Purification is when His power comes. Therefore, the Purification is when His power comes, that is why it is said a great sign in the sky, which is His power comes upon the earth to purify. But here Mathew used other terminologies. Thus, John the Apostle has a very deep understanding; but it is so simple, could be understood by anyone with simple thinking, that is the real meaning. So, that is the start prior to the Purification, where God’s power will be presence, and then the Purification will come upon the earth. Don’t you think we would see God shows up on the clouds? It is not like that. But His power will be descended to purify the world, like that. People always have come up with different understandings. It is not wrong for people whom don’t understand and have different understandings. But please understand this is my own understanding; don’t let it influence your own thoughts. It is enough for me to reflect it but also was selected during prayer, is it true my fruit of reflection? So, if we cannot differentiate like that, evils will get involved and give us different understandings.

Let us struggle to serve anyone, especially within family. If we cannot serve within our family, we cannot serve outside even more. So, God’s children should behave equally in serving others, regardless the situation, good or no good, we must serve pleasantly.


(Someone of the audience: How do we combine between these two tasks: first task is to witness the presence of Mother Mary in Indonesia and second to convey the Truth about the world Purification?)

Well, we actually have conveyed whom the Purification comes from? Automatically we have conveyed Mother Mary with all her messages, we already have done both! But those were preached by us closed their heart. The messages were not received, that is not our faults. That is their rights to refuse this preaching itself. There is nothing we can do; we just leave them up to God. And for ourselves, let us not force the preaching, you must accept it! Impossible! For God Himself until this second, there are many people who are not saved in the entire world, many still do not believe in Jesus. So, what important is God knows and Mother Mary knows that we already convey it. But they do not open their heart so far. It is important for us to always pray for them and the preaching, so God’s mercy will come upon them.

Bishop Isak Doera: I would like to add a little bit. After I reflected, I think this community was named the community of charity services because it is the charity services done by Mother Mary while she was still living on earth and guided people in Jerusalem then. There is no longer a great spirit of brotherhood in the Church, helping one another, praying from house to house just like in Jerusalem before; it does no longer exist! If it is not exist, how are we going to face the Purification? That is why this spirit must live again. In Jerusalem, Mother Mary acted as a Mother, not as Queen, and now Mother Mary comes to Indonesia just like she was in Jerusalem as a Mother. But in Indonesia, especially in Java Island, which majority of us are Javanese, are still feudal. They prefer to address Mother Mary as Queen than Mother. This settled already in their feudal heart. But the psychology relationship between a queen and people is so distant, unlike between one with his mother is close; they hug each other. And this is what Mother Mary prefers to be looking at as a Mother than as a queen; even though a queen is also correct, but a queen is her position in heaven. She is Queen in Heaven. Now, she wants to come to the world as a Mother. We are aware before the cave was eerie; when they prayed Novena, the evil power was thrown out of there. We understand well how later they named the cave ‘Sendang Ratu Kenya’ (The Spring of Virgin Queen) for there was a fight between the evil power and the Light power. Mother Mary delegated the Light power as the Queen defeated the King of evil. Yes, we could understand it. But Mother Mary can ask her children to call her mother, not queen. By calling her ‘mother’, we will feel so close with Her, even more affectionate than if we call Her Queen. The psychology distance as Queen is so big. But there is no distance when we call her as Mother. But this is hard to put this understanding in someone who is so feudal, it’s hard but it’s a must. God Himself, A great King Almighty was willing to become man and was not born in the Palace, but in the sheep’s stall. The Indonesian Churches were example of this situation. The year of 67, 68, 69, we started to use the new translated church prayers, from Latin to Indonesian. Then, the ‘new prayers’ concept instructed by Liturgy commission was too feudal. The Angel of Gabrielle greeted Mary: ‘Mother’ when she then was single and was not married; that’s impossible!

This was used either in Gloria prayers or pre1fation. I happened to be in Pontianak then was asked for help by Liturgy Commission in Pontianak; and I wrote an article in ‘Penabur Magazine’, which existed. This Feudal spirit was too big; we feel we honor God if we see Him as King or Mary as Queen, if fact, this is not what neither God nor Mary truly asked. They want to be closer to us, that was why Jesus taught us to call God with ‘ABBA’, which means Father.

The same with Mother Mary, don’t let us used to addressing her as Queen, but Mother instead. Jesus already announced that to us “That is your Mother, your mom, and that is your son”. At the Cross Jesus passed His last will from His heart as close to end, that there should be mother and children relationship between Mary and us. This is what we need to establish.

(Someone of the audience: Good afternoon John the Apostle, I just want to request some help to be guided how I could love Mother Mary. If I love Her, anything She asked, I will obey and do it. But without loving Her, it is impossible for me to do anything. Regardless how heavy the tasks are, if there is love for Her, I will definitely do it. Please, teach us John the Apostle because as far as I know you love Mother Mary dearly, that is why you are loved by Lord Jesus. Thank you).

Okay, very well for all of you gather here. I want the religious spirit like this. Please continue struggling to gather and talk about God; what must you do after you gather? Serve, love, and don’t forget to give to others, the suffering ones. Don’t feel forced, but with your willingness because you love God. Anything you do with love, God will accept it perfectly, all kinds of thing you do for others in your live. Very well, anyone asks for good things, God will grant them. So, go ahead and ask from Him, ask a blessing from Mother Mary, so that your love fires up united with Mother Mary. Anything you ask in Truth, in Love, in Soul, in Spirit, you should get it fast. But if you ask for worldly things, you will get nothing and you will end up getting upset because you don’t get what you ask for. In this Community, I am asking you to realize that you were called. Blessed are you who were called. Not all people were called opened their heart and God accepted your willingness to the call. Not everyone! You should be happy now for opening your heart to be united in Truth to convey the Truth so God’s children will all be saved and returned, that is your mission. This is what God asked from you, God also wanted to come to save men so His creation, men could be His wholly, not be part of the world.

All my children, I am happy to see you like this. If many have faith like this all over the world, looking for God whenever you gather, glorify Him and serve others, there will be peace everywhere. But the world is so hard; the world has a strong influence on people whom close their heart to Truth.

About your question you asked just now, a baby died before receiving baptism in Spirit, but the family accepted God. The baby is saved. Don’t ever have doubts, anyone who goes through that situation, don’t feel afraid, they will be saved since their families truly praise God and testify about the Truth through their behavior and attitude. Because one thing, God never looks at them that way, the main thing is the faith of the family itself, how deep they believe in God.

And how God was among His creation, I will explain more to you. God created men with a noble purpose. If God did not create men, God would be Himself along with Angels, just like that. God saw it was not sufficient for He has the power to do the best for His purpose to create men. So, the men He created could glorify Him, be united with Him together with His creation. The question just now, is God with non-believers? I would like to say that at the beginning, God wanted to create men to be His wholly; but after creation, men chose not to look for God but the world instead. For the world was created, evils existed already, as they were many angels whom got thrown out of Heaven. They made themselves disturbers. The disturbers are evils, the bad disturbers. So, God created men but later men fell into sins. This was caused by the power of darkness that wants to make the event of Adam and Eve were punished by God, lasting forever to their hereditary; and that happened. In the beginning, men would have been happy on earth, but they end up suffering and being sad and ruined with the world. Anyone gets ruined together with the world means God is not with them.

Anyone accepts God in his or her life and falls into sins, God is mercy, loving, and caring. Those who open their heart in their weakness and sins, God will take him or her back joyfully.

That is our God, the close God, God has actually given His live for all of us and what can we do to repay Him whom gave up His life; all for us as He came to earth. For God saw men already fell into sins because of the acts of evils on earth. That was why God came, without His coming, men would have been destroyed, all God’s creations. So, God’s plan in the beginning for men to praise Him and knew Him truly would not have happened. That’s why He came to earth to declare Himself to men and to remind men again that God’s plan was to bring men to happiness. Therefore, this is what I need to tell all my children here. At this end of session, I will not leave you wherever you are serving; God will bring me among you for I was given to you to guide you on earth. You cannot see me in person, but look at the fruits you have accepted in this Community, are those heavenly fruits or worldly ones?

Those are us working together with you as heaven works with you; wherever you pray, our prayers are united together with you in the prayer itself. And we never leave you for God has declared His power in your live journey at this last moment. Wherever Agnes is assigned for you to convey these Truths so those whose faiths are faded will grow again and be reminded that God is close, God is Mercy and Love, God is Mercy and God has the wholly love and cannot be taken away by the world. God exists in Heaven, and for you to know that God actually will bring you to happiness. Thus, you will be saved working and waiting in spirit and working. Don’t you ever count the time, when is it! When is it! You will then get tired as you cannot reflect God’s power and God’s promise. All God’s promises, in old Testaments and His testaments in our time, we all worked.

The promised was not just to be accepted and left it sitting and just wait until it happens, that is wrong! Therefore, the promise keeps us working; working by serving. Happy working and work well with your heart. I want your sincere heart and learn to clean your heart every day. Don’t let your heart froze with bad things, later it will close and you won’t be able to see the Truth itself, so you will not hear God is calling in your live. God is calling in many ways, many ways, you must be sensitive in faith, so whenever you are in need of God’s help, you come and pray, God will be present and help you and you will feel the help.

Do me a favor, anything stuck in your heart, please take care of it and have it cleaned and be united again in services. Let no more anger in your services, later evils will work and destroy all good plans in your live journey. Evils are so tricky, they will interfere and sometimes you don’t know whether it is God or who? It’s almost the same.

There was someone healed through a shaman, those who have power from the world. He was healed, but look at his healing; it is not the true healing he’s got. Later he will suffer, will suffer more since the healing did not come from God, but from the world. If from God, He would heal your soul and body; this is for you to understand.

So, I am asking all of you gather here now and also you two priests, you have heard so much and you are united with God’s children now. You must work too for your people wherever you are; give these complete explanations about God, not just partial or a half giving explanation about God. Bring them; guide them to come to God; that is your job as priests called by God to be God’s hands to save His children on this earth. This is my message for you, priests, and you please accompany them in this journey. Don’t be afraid or worry, later God will declare who is right and not when the end comes. Those who close their heart and claim you are lost; they at the end will receive the fruit of their reflection, what was their purpose and destination in your live journey.

But you don’t judge anyone, anyone who is wrong with you, you don’t have any rights to judge anyone, but pray for them.

You pray, ask for God’s forgiveness so they could be changed to be good children in their journey. That is service; a spiritual service, a bodily service will be united and you give those services. Don’t let anyone around you cry for food, and you stay put, close your ear and eyes; you don’t hear those crying. You have sin for that. I state it you have sin for that! So, hurry, you are put in this community to overcome many problems regarding God’s children. In big crowd you are helping others joyfully, without any rewards appear from your heart.

Don’t go for rewards as you already have God in heaven. And you know since you have God in heaven, you do not need to chase after the rewards, just do it in the name of Jesus when you do something. Don’t ever say I am doing this kind thing so God would do this to me, you will not get anything from what you have done.

Those who seek for rewards, they don’t know God in heaven for they don’t know the purpose of his or her life, where and must go where? But you have a destination, which is God in heaven. You understand, don’t you? Thank you and it is enough for this meeting with Agnes.

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