QUESTION AND ANSWER
(Someone of the audience: May
I ask? Now that we are preparing ourselves toward the Purification
day, as the community of charity services of the Blessed Mother,
what things should we prepare?)
preparation is your heart. From the beginning I told you ‘your heart’. Your heart
belongs to God. Your heart is one with your Soul. Your heart is not
this one here. What is it called? (Liver). Yes, liver, but not that.
Your spiritual heart, the heart is with your soul. Your soul lives;
it lies within your body’s skeleton. When God takes the soul,
your body becomes powerless; it will become sands, has no use. What
useful is your soul which will be saved; this soul lives. Your heart
lies within soul. You could pray with soul, meet with God. Those
pray with soul will meet God, but those pray with thoughts will meet
Satan. Do you believe it? (audience: We do)
Later, you will desperate,
you will get angry to God for your prayers are not granted. This is
why many God’s children run away from
reality, if they cannot handle, they will be mad. This is what I want
to tell you. So, I am begging you, in this community together with Mother
Mary, to work well. Do what you can do especially in your family, this
is important. No more anger and irritation at home, but instead it should
have love and affection so you could praise God. When one gets annoyed,
gets angry, the rest will get affected, for Satan always uses the weaknesses
of surrounding people. At the end, there is no peace. The unfinished
problem will make him madder, further distance from God. This is what
I want to tell you.
of the audience: Apostle, please explain to us about the purification
itself that we discussed just now. I just want to know more about how
the purification does not come from the person within but from the
my dear brother/sisters, peace and joy greetings for those united in
God this afternoon with Agnes, you two also the priests and God’s
children. You may hear anything today; I give you much time. We will
talk about anything you do not understand, you may talk.
Purification”. Purification does not come from the person within
but from his/her surroundings. Okay, like this I don’t like Ola,
I don’t like your attitude and behavior. You cannot be like that.
I must like her for who she is; this is purification. I should accept
any behavior and attitude of my fellows, brothers/sisters, and in my
family for what they are. There are always settlements. Don’t accept
but no settlements, it will be sad later. I am purified and so he is,
don’t you agree? Do you understand? I am being purified, and so
does he. I don’t like A or B, but I am purified, so I must accept
that person and must be closed with him, to love and care, and I will
talk in faith with A or B. He is purified and so am I; he will not be
naughty again, I will accept him the way he is, and I will be patient.
does not just come from within us, but also from your surrounding.
There must be many people rebel for his friends
do not like it. If you are against it, you will not be part of purification.
For any behavior and attitude you receive from your surroundings, especially
from your family; you must know: I must be patience with the situation
and what must I do. Be wise and humble; as these appear to accept that
person for what he is and solve the problem. It’s like that. This
is purification, whether you like it or not. Do you understand? Like
or dislike, there is no man alive will say I like you. No way! What did
he say? I like you! No, there has got to be something in someone, you
like and don’t like. This is the purification. This will help you
to be purified at this moment. So, we know this is my weakness; I am
easy to get angry, yes, because of him I get angry. The most important
thing, you pray for that person with your genuine heart, God must change
that person to be better. Prayer, it all comes back to prayer. We must
pray a lot. Praying is united in soul, in mercy, and in love through
God’s power; we meet God through that prayer.
We also prayed a
lot. Everything we brought into our prayers, had problems, we brought
into our prayers, also when we were happy, we prayed in rejoice.
You may sing in rejoice, thank God. You may dance, nothing is wrong with
it as the heaven is also rejoicing. Especially when feeling happy, when
we see great things from the earth, we are rejoicing, praising God. You
may also, it’s not wrong. Who said wrong to dance in praising God?
Did anybody say wrong? (Answer audience: no one)
There are! These
people do not understand; God likes His children rejoicing and praising
Him, with their honest hearts poured out for God, God likes
it! David danced praising God and commended His life to God. I once was
born naked from my mother’s womb, and also now, what I mean is;
if you want to come to God, don’t come with your flash.
For you priests,
you come to God for you are a priest; you talk to Him and tell Him
what you wish as a priest. Be humble! “It’s
me Lord, I come to you with all my weaknesses, with all my attitudes
and behaviors, I come to you. I am praying for my people you gave me,
help me so I could protect them all in my services, and not to be served.” Let
me ask you, is this correct? (Answer audience: correct)
For we were with
God, we served people. He took us to a lot of places. My feet hurt,
the clothes were smelly; and its color turned to what color
is that? Washing our clothes; while resting we washed our clothes, waited
by sleeping…, when they got dry, we wore them again. But you priests,
these days, I see you are happy; many priests are happy, from one place
to another. I realize it is time to serve that way, but I remind you “serve,
not to be served!” That is the completeness of being a priest since
your job is to serve. Okay, you must believe it? Must be like that.
Yes, we have talked
to John the Apostle for a long time just now about the Truth, about
God’s plan to save His children, how we become
His good children and do our jobs well and serve well. That needs a struggle.
God shall bless His children who struggle for good things in their live
journey. Thus, we received many deep understandings from John the Apostle
how we all were saved and what we need to do after in this journey. That
was what I heard when John the Apostle explained to us just now.
of the audience asked: I’d like to ask about chapter 4, about
the twenty-four elders and about four beasts.)
4:4 And surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated
on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns
of gold on their heads.
I am not quite clear on the term elders, and why four beasts?)
Apostle usually uses the term elders for those people whom are wise
and worthwhile; they are not just regular old men! The people
have already finished their tasks in their live journey and God accepted
them.(Audience: How about the number 24? What does it mean?)
This is only an expression; it is possible the number of holly people
is countless. 24 is only a symbol, a phrase to give us some understanding.
There are many holy people in heaven, how is it counted? But with this
phrase, we understand that they are gathered and we could reflect it.
There must have been more than 24 holly people in heaven. Once again,
this is only an expression; the exact number is unlimited there.
What is another one? Those four beasts are also expression; might just
take the good characters of those beasts. For instance, a cow, how is
its character? It gives most of what he has got. Almost all of its body
is given to men: milk, flash, even its eyes. They all are useful. This
is only for example; those beasts have something good before God to be
used for describing people He chose. John the Apostle has unique character;
others have it too. Do you understand?
of the audience: how about the red horse, what does it mean?)
It is war and the brave one!
Why was John the Apostle described as an eagle? He was too deep in teaching
about God. He was the only one mastered about God; the rest was not.
So he was described like that so we know. Thus, they have characteristics.
Let us see Mathew, Marc, Luke, and compare with John, well it is not
What parts of Bible that priests have the most difficulty in explaining
to their people? It is John, off course. It is quite hard. For us it
is also hard, not only to the priests. It is hard for us since this is
the deepening of faith. Whoever believes Jesus, will be tested, come
on, come on as if we are pulled to know Jesus more. Well, it is like
that! That is the gospel of John, it is different; that was why given
the eagle description. John the Apostle said those images were given
for different character each has in conveying God’s Truth. Ola
might have a way, I have a different one, and each of us has our own
way in conveying the Truth about God. The way varies, but the message
is the same. Each has his own character like Mathew, Luke, and Marc;
they are different in delivering but they all have one destination, which
is God, God’s presence to save men’s lives. That is it; I
think John the Apostle may add something to it? He said it is enough
and it is deep enough the understanding given just now.
of the audience: Just now, John the Apostle also mentioned that after
the purification of the world, we will live in one era, which we do
not know how long that is? Therefore, we will face until the world’s
purification, but after that we do not know will we live to face many
events until end?)
If I am not mistaken,
I heard John the Apostle said you would only receive what has been
your part in this prophecy, what you have already received
about the Promise. Therefore, we have tasks and others prior to the world’s
purification; we do not know how long that one era is and how long we
will live? But after that one era, there will be another era. We will
not live in that era, no need to discuss about that. What we are talking
now is God’s promise, the purification, and we do the tasks. We
do not know how long we will live during that one era itself. We might
not go through the end of the world in the future era. Why do you need
to know that matter? It’s no use, it is way too far, and you will
not understand more! Those of you understood about this, please comprehend
it deep especially for conveying the Truth in this community.
of the audience: Ma’am, I’ve got a question, and hopefully
John the Apostle is still around to help in answering it. We now in
Lent time; in the Liturgy, the Church has been always preached about
celebrating or honoring three things. Celebrating Jesus was born, preparing
our hearts to receive Jesus, and waiting for His coming at end of days.
The second coming of Jesus is end of days, never mentioned about the
purification day. Now through this community, we are conveying the
world’s purification message. Then, we have chosen this recollection
time during Lent since the timing is so perfect for waiting for the
second coming of God. But now we are talking about the purification
of the world where God would not come yet, only His power descends,
as the Son of Man’s time to judge is not here just yet. That
is later at the end of the world. Therefore, it is hard to come in
between those understandings during conveying. This has often become
a problem to be openly where Church has never preached or taught about
the between era?)
Isak Doera: The Church has never deepened the Book of Revelation;
as Mother Mary
always says John’s Prophecy. Through John’s
prophecy, we understand more. Thus, The Church does not understand it;
the hierarchy does not pay much attention.
That is why; the
difficulties Churches are facing, the difficulties priests are facing
to guide people whom are labile in faith in their
lives; many are hopeless, many troubles they are facing because they
don’t have a strong faith guiding them.
Truthfully, the purification
must happen individually within us every day, not only waiting for
God’s promise for our purification. No!
Purification is a continuous progress, we continuously wait for Jesus’ coming
not only at Christmas, but it must be everyday, and we open our heart
to expect Jesus in our life. This is more real than the understanding
comprehended literally. Thus, many people only come to church during
Christmas or Easter. It’s not like that. No! Waiting for Jesus’ birth
is actually not a moment of remembrance; we should renew our life, rebirth
ourselves everyday to be a new person, which means repent, reflect on
our live journey, what I have done. That is purification! That is the
rebirth every day, not only on Christmas. This is what God’s children
as the Church still do not understand. It is adequate just to come to
church during Christmas and Easter, after that no need. And they never
get involved in any spiritual activities or other things in the community.
Is this adequate? It is not; this is the priests’ duty to guide.
Therefore in Christmas and Easter Liturgy later, it must be more stressed
on the real meaning of Christmas and Easter in our daily life. This is
very important. So, it’s not big letter saying EASTER AND CHRISTMAS,
but it is more important the spiritual life of Christmas and Easter in
an individual daily life, this is what John the Apostle said.
hard for those do not reflect it deep; why is it so hard? To follow
God must be like this, like that. No! God does not demand much from
us, God only demands to take good care of ourselves. Be faithful in
your life; that is all. For the faithfulness at the beginning was given
to Abraham. Be faithful, God’s demand continues to all of us.
We cannot …… if one is not faithful, what is his sin? That
is God’s matter; do not always want to know what God does in
someone’s life. Many say: “Agnes, that priest is no longer
a priest, how is that?” Well, that’s his faithful. That
is his matter with God. It’s not our right, but we could pray
for all that. So, if men want to see how far God judges the unfaithful
ones, that is wrong!
is what John the Apostle needed to tell this afternoon. So, there is
and is real. If not, what will men become? Please,
what will men become if God does not purify? What will men become? Will
be all gone; when God through His power wants to save men, where are
the men? All are gone with the world? God’s plan is not like that.
God must love and have faith in His children. He must do His plan, He
would prepare His children well; therefore He assigned Mother Mary to
us. Through His power, Mother Mary is presence on earth among us. What
kind of sign is it? Love sign, it is God’s love sign, by His ways
He wants to save men from this world.
of the audience: During the sun becomes darkened, at that time the
sign of the Son of
Man will appear in the sky, etc. For what I understand ‘the
sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky’ is as a Cross or
it could be another sign of the Son of Man comes and steps on clouds.
Thus, I got the understanding by combining what according to Mathew and
what we had just now that the second coming of Jesus may be prior to
the three days of darkness, not after that. This is an opinion, ma’am,
What Mathew said
the sign in the sky, the Son of Man stands on clouds, couldn’t be accepted literally! That means His power comes; this
is the Purification. It is not the end of time, but the beginning of
Purification is when His power comes. Therefore, the Purification is
when His power comes, that is why it is said a great sign in the sky,
which is His power comes upon the earth to purify. But here Mathew used
other terminologies. Thus, John the Apostle has a very deep understanding;
but it is so simple, could be understood by anyone with simple thinking,
that is the real meaning. So, that is the start prior to the Purification,
where God’s power will be presence, and then the Purification will
come upon the earth. Don’t you think we would see God shows up
on the clouds? It is not like that. But His power will be descended to
purify the world, like that. People always have come up with different
understandings. It is not wrong for people whom don’t understand
and have different understandings. But please understand this is my own
understanding; don’t let it influence your own thoughts. It is
enough for me to reflect it but also was selected during prayer, is it
true my fruit of reflection? So, if we cannot differentiate like that,
evils will get involved and give us different understandings.
Let us struggle to
serve anyone, especially within family. If we cannot serve within our
family, we cannot serve outside even more. So, God’s
children should behave equally in serving others, regardless the situation,
good or no good, we must serve pleasantly.
(Someone of the audience: How do we combine between these two tasks:
first task is to witness the presence of Mother Mary in Indonesia and
second to convey the Truth about the world Purification?)
Well, we actually
have conveyed whom the Purification comes from? Automatically we have
conveyed Mother Mary with all her messages, we already have done
both! But those were preached by us closed their heart. The messages
were not received, that is not our faults. That is their rights to refuse
this preaching itself. There is nothing we can do; we just leave them
up to God. And for ourselves, let us not force the preaching, you must
accept it! Impossible! For God Himself until this second, there are many
people who are not saved in the entire world, many still do not believe
in Jesus. So, what important is God knows and Mother Mary knows that
we already convey it. But they do not open their heart so far. It is
important for us to always pray for them and the preaching, so God’s
mercy will come upon them.
Bishop Isak Doera:
I would like to add a little bit. After I reflected, I think this community
was named the community of charity services because
it is the charity services done by Mother Mary while she was still living
on earth and guided people in Jerusalem then. There is no longer a great
spirit of brotherhood in the Church, helping one another, praying from
house to house just like in Jerusalem before; it does no longer exist!
If it is not exist, how are we going to face the Purification? That is
why this spirit must live again. In Jerusalem, Mother Mary acted as a
Mother, not as Queen, and now Mother Mary comes to Indonesia just like
she was in Jerusalem as a Mother. But in Indonesia, especially in Java
Island, which majority of us are Javanese, are still feudal. They prefer
to address Mother Mary as Queen than Mother. This settled already in
their feudal heart. But the psychology relationship between a queen and
people is so distant, unlike between one with his mother is close; they
hug each other. And this is what Mother Mary prefers to be looking at
as a Mother than as a queen; even though a queen is also correct, but
a queen is her position in heaven. She is Queen in Heaven. Now, she wants
to come to the world as a Mother. We are aware before the cave was eerie;
when they prayed Novena, the evil power was thrown out of there. We understand
well how later they named the cave ‘Sendang Ratu Kenya’ (The
Spring of Virgin Queen) for there was a fight between the evil power
and the Light power. Mother Mary delegated the Light power as the Queen
defeated the King of evil. Yes, we could understand it. But Mother Mary
can ask her children to call her mother, not queen. By calling her ‘mother’,
we will feel so close with Her, even more affectionate than if we call
Her Queen. The psychology distance as Queen is so big. But there is no
distance when we call her as Mother. But this is hard to put this understanding
in someone who is so feudal, it’s hard but it’s a must. God
Himself, A great King Almighty was willing to become man and was not
born in the Palace, but in the sheep’s stall. The Indonesian Churches
were example of this situation. The year of 67, 68, 69, we started to
use the new translated church prayers, from Latin to Indonesian. Then,
the ‘new prayers’ concept instructed by Liturgy commission
was too feudal. The Angel of Gabrielle greeted Mary: ‘Mother’ when
she then was single and was not married; that’s impossible!
This was used either
in Gloria prayers or pre1fation. I happened to be in Pontianak then
was asked for help by Liturgy Commission in Pontianak;
and I wrote an article in ‘Penabur Magazine’, which existed.
This Feudal spirit was too big; we feel we honor God if we see Him as
King or Mary as Queen, if fact, this is not what neither God nor Mary
truly asked. They want to be closer to us, that was why Jesus taught
us to call God with ‘ABBA’, which means Father.
The same with Mother
Mary, don’t let us used to addressing her
as Queen, but Mother instead. Jesus already announced that to us “That
is your Mother, your mom, and that is your son”. At the Cross Jesus
passed His last will from His heart as close to end, that there should
be mother and children relationship between Mary and us. This is what
we need to establish.
of the audience: Good afternoon John the Apostle, I just want to request
some help to be guided how I could love Mother Mary. If I love Her,
anything She asked, I will obey and do it. But without loving Her,
it is impossible for me to do anything. Regardless how heavy the tasks
are, if there is love for Her, I will definitely do it. Please, teach
us John the Apostle because as far as I know you love Mother Mary dearly,
that is why you are loved by Lord Jesus. Thank you).
Okay, very well for
all of you gather here. I want the religious spirit like this. Please
continue struggling to gather and talk about God; what
must you do after you gather? Serve, love, and don’t forget to
give to others, the suffering ones. Don’t feel forced, but with
your willingness because you love God. Anything you do with love, God
will accept it perfectly, all kinds of thing you do for others in your
live. Very well, anyone asks for good things, God will grant them. So,
go ahead and ask from Him, ask a blessing from Mother Mary, so that your
love fires up united with Mother Mary. Anything you ask in Truth, in
Love, in Soul, in Spirit, you should get it fast. But if you ask for
worldly things, you will get nothing and you will end up getting upset
because you don’t get what you ask for. In this Community, I am
asking you to realize that you were called. Blessed are you who were
called. Not all people were called opened their heart and God accepted
your willingness to the call. Not everyone! You should be happy now for
opening your heart to be united in Truth to convey the Truth so God’s
children will all be saved and returned, that is your mission. This is
what God asked from you, God also wanted to come to save men so His creation,
men could be His wholly, not be part of the world.
All my children, I am happy to see you like this. If many have faith
like this all over the world, looking for God whenever you gather, glorify
Him and serve others, there will be peace everywhere. But the world is
so hard; the world has a strong influence on people whom close their
heart to Truth.
About your question
you asked just now, a baby died before receiving baptism in Spirit,
but the family accepted God. The baby is saved. Don’t
ever have doubts, anyone who goes through that situation, don’t
feel afraid, they will be saved since their families truly praise God
and testify about the Truth through their behavior and attitude. Because
one thing, God never looks at them that way, the main thing is the faith
of the family itself, how deep they believe in God.
And how God was among His creation, I will explain more to you. God
created men with a noble purpose. If God did not create men, God would
be Himself along with Angels, just like that. God saw it was not sufficient
for He has the power to do the best for His purpose to create men. So,
the men He created could glorify Him, be united with Him together with
His creation. The question just now, is God with non-believers? I would
like to say that at the beginning, God wanted to create men to be His
wholly; but after creation, men chose not to look for God but the world
instead. For the world was created, evils existed already, as they were
many angels whom got thrown out of Heaven. They made themselves disturbers.
The disturbers are evils, the bad disturbers. So, God created men but
later men fell into sins. This was caused by the power of darkness that
wants to make the event of Adam and Eve were punished by God, lasting
forever to their hereditary; and that happened. In the beginning, men
would have been happy on earth, but they end up suffering and being sad
and ruined with the world. Anyone gets ruined together with the world
means God is not with them.
God in his or her life and falls into sins, God is mercy, loving, and
caring. Those who open their heart in their weakness and sins, God
will take him or her back joyfully.
That is our God,
the close God, God has actually given His live for all of us and what
can we do to repay Him whom gave up His life; all
for us as He came to earth. For God saw men already fell into sins because
of the acts of evils on earth. That was why God came, without His coming,
men would have been destroyed, all God’s creations. So, God’s
plan in the beginning for men to praise Him and knew Him truly would
not have happened. That’s why He came to earth to declare Himself
to men and to remind men again that God’s plan was to bring men
to happiness. Therefore, this is what I need to tell all my children
here. At this end of session, I will not leave you wherever you are serving;
God will bring me among you for I was given to you to guide you on earth.
You cannot see me in person, but look at the fruits you have accepted
in this Community, are those heavenly fruits or worldly ones?
Those are us working
together with you as heaven works with you; wherever you pray, our
prayers are united together with you in the prayer itself.
And we never leave you for God has declared His power in your live journey
at this last moment. Wherever Agnes is assigned for you to convey these
Truths so those whose faiths are faded will grow again and be reminded
that God is close, God is Mercy and Love, God is Mercy and God has the
wholly love and cannot be taken away by the world. God exists in Heaven,
and for you to know that God actually will bring you to happiness. Thus,
you will be saved working and waiting in spirit and working. Don’t
you ever count the time, when is it! When is it! You will then get tired
as you cannot reflect God’s power and God’s promise. All
God’s promises, in old Testaments and His testaments in our time,
we all worked.
The promised was
not just to be accepted and left it sitting and just wait until it
happens, that is wrong! Therefore, the promise keeps us
working; working by serving. Happy working and work well with your heart.
I want your sincere heart and learn to clean your heart every day. Don’t
let your heart froze with bad things, later it will close and you won’t
be able to see the Truth itself, so you will not hear God is calling
in your live. God is calling in many ways, many ways, you must be sensitive
in faith, so whenever you are in need of God’s help, you come and
pray, God will be present and help you and you will feel the help.
Do me a
favor, anything stuck in your heart, please take care of it and have
it cleaned and
be united again in services. Let no more anger
in your services, later evils will work and destroy all good plans in
your live journey. Evils are so tricky, they will interfere and sometimes
you don’t know whether it is God or who? It’s almost the
was someone healed through a shaman, those who have power from the
healed, but look at his healing; it is not the true
healing he’s got. Later he will suffer, will suffer more since
the healing did not come from God, but from the world. If from God, He
would heal your soul and body; this is for you to understand.
So, I am
asking all of you gather here now and also you two priests, you have
much and you are united with God’s children now.
You must work too for your people wherever you are; give these complete
explanations about God, not just partial or a half giving explanation
about God. Bring them; guide them to come to God; that is your job as
priests called by God to be God’s hands to save His children on
this earth. This is my message for you, priests, and you please accompany
them in this journey. Don’t be afraid or worry, later God will
declare who is right and not when the end comes. Those who close their
heart and claim you are lost; they at the end will receive the fruit
of their reflection, what was their purpose and destination in your live
you don’t judge anyone, anyone who is wrong with you, you
don’t have any rights to judge anyone, but pray for them.
ask for God’s forgiveness so they could be changed to
be good children in their journey. That is service; a spiritual service,
a bodily service will be united and you give those services. Don’t
let anyone around you cry for food, and you stay put, close your ear
and eyes; you don’t hear those crying. You have sin for that. I
state it you have sin for that! So, hurry, you are put in this community
to overcome many problems regarding God’s children. In big crowd
you are helping others joyfully, without any rewards appear from your
Don’t go for rewards as you already have God in heaven. And you
know since you have God in heaven, you do not need to chase after the
rewards, just do it in the name of Jesus when you do something. Don’t
ever say I am doing this kind thing so God would do this to me, you will
not get anything from what you have done.
seek for rewards, they don’t know God in heaven for
they don’t know the purpose of his or her life, where and must
go where? But you have a destination, which is God in heaven. You understand,
don’t you? Thank you and it is enough for this meeting with Agnes.